Hi All,
I have been advised to come here for some help from Crytek. I understand the world of game developing is a really hard place to get a Idea/Concept into reality because the people who have worked really hard to become a developer is working on there own projects etc. I only have the concept but lack the skills to develop it. I understand that if I want a game to be made, the best way to make a game is to do it myself. I would try in the mean time to get some one who would invest into my idea so I could pay the developers the money to make it. I have researched into this game & found there to be no game currently on the market on any platform. There was millions of these sold in 2011, still growing well in 2012 & I think will continue to grow in 2013. If any one on here can point me in the right direction I would appreciate your involvement. I have tried emails to sony & Crytek but find they are all "hands on deck" currently working hard on developing there own ideas. I know time is of the key here because it won't be long till this game is developed. How can i patent my idea so no one can copy it? who would work on my idea for the right money? Who do I contact? Where do I start? I have many questions & hope there is some one who knows some one, who maybe knows some one else because I al so Understand its not what you know it's who you know in this world. lol.

supplyfox@reborn.com

Hi supplyfox

I've moved your post from the Help forum to its own topic in the Announcements forum. It's more likely to get seen here.

I don't believe there is any way to patent an idea for a game.

Enjoy your stay!

_________________
Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve

Thank you for doing that my friend. I could not seem to find where to post a new topic. I appreciate your help & this is was my first post. Thank you.

Its not good news.

Ideas are created by abstracting concepts.
A concept is created by defining an Idea.

The development life-cycle of a project is normally divided into Idea -> Conception(Requirements) -> Design -> Implementation.

In general; You patent a Design, and copyright an Implementation.

Wikipedia states "The term intellectual property is used mistakenly in place of copyright. Copyright law regulating the aforementioned monopolies generally does not cover the actual ideas. The law does not bestow the legal status of property upon ideas".

As for Games;

Copyright is implicit, It is a given right to any implementation you create. You can redefine your copyright terms, using a license.

Patents are rare (if not non existent) because a game is developed from hundreds (if not thousands) of Concepts and Ideas, The design that you produce is so specific that it is useless to others and not worthwhile.

As for Investment, Ive never seen anyone invest into 'an Idea'. The majority is at the Design and Implementation Stage, and the thing that people look for the most is "Can they pull it off?"

If you believe in your idea enough, your only choice is to start the Design process. Create a Pitch Document (A design document), Try to get investment. If you don't and still believe in this project, continue the design stage and refine your design, continue to ask for investment etc.

All the best
Mike Brown

I agree with cxzuk.

In truth, you have much to gain by sharing your idea and using other people as a sounding board to improve it.

_________________
Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve

I know the game would work. I know I could pull it off. I just need the game to be developed. I understand that the idea could be copied to some degree but I want to be the first to make it. I have some knowledge of intellectual property rights because I once had a great idea for the motor ways to save peoples lives & went to a seminar at oxford uni to discuss the idea but gave up because of the CASH involved & time I had to have off work . That is a different story & maybe only the government could sort that one out but that would work too. Although with this idea I have, I know the game would do really really well because there isn't one out there & many people do it now with out the game play to back it up. I guarantee it will be out next summer by some one else & I missed out ounce again on a perfect opportunity due the lack of knowledge & CASH!. Thank you for your involvement & knowledge & I take notes of your points very seriously & will think about what you have posted, thank you & best wishes....Supplyfox

Sorry, should have been clearer. To "pull it off" means to Develop and Implement all the way to the end. To be able to complete the tasks ahead.



1) Context: "Ok, we have a tribe, where should they live?"
2) You perform research, and create "Ideas" by abstracting them out of your research.
3) Well we could have them in a Jungle, Desert, Forest, The Moon, A small village (<= Ideas)
4) .. (Repeat with more questions and ideas to fulfil the questions) ..
5) "Ok our tribe will live on an island, which has an active volcano and a small rain forest, this island is constantly struct by tsunami's" (<== All ideas gathered create a Concept [Your Requirements])

Note: A Concept has no details, It does not describe what the volcano looks like, what it does during the story etc. "Volcano" is an abstraction, it would not appear in your code. It will most likely be;



CINDER_CONE is a type of volcano (http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjec ... ano/types/).
"mount_tiki" is the name of the volcano on the island.
unique attributes are the differences between this CINDER_CONE and others.

--

It sounds like you most likely don't have an idea, because an idea has no value. Its typical for many of us (me included) to think of an idea, and instantly produce a Design and even an Implementation in our heads. From years of experience, this just doesn't work. Getting the ideas working together early on, and making solid concepts is mission critical. Jumping to the D&I from what you consider a good "idea" misses this key step in development.

All the best,
Mikey

I think you are too focused on the glorious end result (in wealth or status) that you envision. It is even stopping you from sharing any information with us.
For getting help, I'd consider that a sub-optimal strategy to say the least.

We all like the Angry Birds story, or the Minecraft story, but I think they were not implemented while thinking about glorious end results. Unless you really know what you are doing, such things mostly happens as a happy side effect.

_________________
My project: Messing about in FreeRCT, dev blog, and IRC #freerct at oftc.net

Im not thinking about the end for my glory or wealth at all. I am thinking about how I start or plant the seed. The reason I cant share the whole idea with you all is self explanatory isn't it? I would love to say what type of game it is to get some feed back but how can any one do that with out any copy rights etc. What is a sub-optimal strategy? I was sent here from Crytek a game development company in Nottinghamshire. I don't think I have even thought about the cash it would make. I just thought loads would buy it. I have 3 children, my youngest is a 7 years old little boy. The game was for him originally, then thought I would check to see if there was a game out there. Nope, None so its got to be made even if not by me & like a said earlier it won't be long until there is one out:(. I have no back ground in game development as you can obviously see although I play a lot of games my self online like world of warcraft, bf3, cod, black ops etc.

Thank you for you comments though I will take them all on board.

Supplyfox...

Howdy Supplyfox, and welcome to the forum.

If you don't have cash, don't even bother applying for a patent -- applying costs THOUSANDS of dollars (just to apply -- no guarantee it will be approved), and does more to divulge the details of your game than protect them. When you apply for a patent, the details are publicly released on the Web site of the US patent office, and groups who do not abide by US patent/copyright law (China, Russia, most of South America, and on and on) frequently "steal" designs from there to manufacture knockoff junk. It doesn't typically happen with software, but it still requires you to give out specific details and share them with the general public.

Also, patents take a while to gain approval. Ever see the "Patent Pending" moniker on products? That means the patent was applied for, but not yet approved. It doesn't necessarily mean that a rip-off product won't be produced.

All in all, patents are worthless (unless you are Apple or whatever, and have money to hire lawyers to sue people for perceived patent infringements). Trying to patent a game idea is throwing money down the toilet, to put it bluntly. It will also rob you of your precious time, if you wait for approval (which could take years), and just plain isn't worth it.

That said, if you really want this game made, the best option is to do it yourself, or hire someone to do it for you (which would actually work out being much cheaper than applying for a patent). As they say, ideas are a dime a dozen, but an idea on the Internet is worth one-twelfth of nothing.

If you need any more suggestions, feel free to ask. We're here to help you either way, so don't hesitate to reply!

_________________
What most people don't understand about "enlightenment" is that it is not an end-goal; but where you find yourself just before taking a new "first step."

Sorry, that last post was a bit redundant (it sucks when you focus on the one issue already addressed in a sentence you miss in the original post ), so forgive the unobservant skimmer in me.

Either way, if you don't want to develop the idea yourself, you'll have to get someone to do it for you. For that to happen, you either have to hire someone (which costs lots of money), or try to find a few people who do this sort of thing (like a few of the people around here ) that would like to volunteer (although the people here are no different from the software publishers when it comes to frying their own eggs).

I understand you don't have the skill, but it's not impossible to learn. If you are interested in learning software development, that is why this community exists. We don't have many people who work on software for other people, though (at least not without getting paid ). If you really, really want to get this rolling, you'll need to learn at least a cursory amount of software development technique so you know how to explain things to someone who can develop the idea. That we can certainly help you with.

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What most people don't understand about "enlightenment" is that it is not an end-goal; but where you find yourself just before taking a new "first step."

It depends on your objective. If you aim to make money out of it, it is. If you aim to have the game for your child, it is not, imho.
Did I miss an option here? (That is, why would you be so secretative other than for money or glory that you expect to get? I cannot think of another reason. If there is, I'd love to know that!)

I am fine with you not telling us what it is about, I just don't understand your goals, which would help a lot. "start or plant the seed" can mean anything. In other words, I am trying to figure out (and mostly failing) when you'd call the project a success.

If you want help with the concrete design and development, you're going to have to explain the idea at some point.

Why do you think they sent you here? Obviously not because they thought your idea was so great they could make a load of money out of it.

Any idea of the size of the market segment of games for children < 10? I don't know, but my guess would be it is nothing compared to other game genres.

Playing gives you some experience, but design and implementation are completely different. The gaming source code I have seen so far is mostly faking the player into believing a game world, it is far less advanced than you may think.

Basically I can see four options for you (with one being non-feasible at this time)
1. Sell the idea to someone
2. Hire someone to develop the idea to a more concrete form
3. Develop it yourself
4. Make it a community project

Option 1 is pretty much impossible I think, unless they know you deliver quality work. You tried this, and you get the excuses like "we are all busy", or "try it elsewhere".

Option 2 will cost lots of money. Someone is only going to work for you when you pay him. I don't know the hourly rate of a developer, but I'd say a 100 dollar/euro an hour. (Others may want to correct this, I am doing random guessing here.) You may want to inform about this with eg a small software development comapny or so.

Option 3 is the best option to start with I think. The first step you need to do is "game design" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_design in fact, you may want to spend a day on reading everything you can find on "game development" / "game desiign".
This gives you several advantages. First of all, the game progresses in development stage. Secondly, options 1 and 2 are much more viable when you have concrete designs rather than abstract ideas. You may want to make a prototype (on paper or on the computer).

Option 4 is only viable after you let go of all ideas of making any money from it, and aim for making the game. To get an idea of how people in such projects think, read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html .
If you want people to work on it for free, they will not like that you make money out of it. In addition, you have to convince them that it is a good project. You may want to look around for projects aimed at children, and look what they do.
I'd say you need to have a working prototype at least before you make any chance.

_________________
My project: Messing about in FreeRCT, dev blog, and IRC #freerct at oftc.net

O.k, firstly They sent me here because like I have already explained in my earlier post, they said they were fully hands on deck with there own projects. Secondly I have not disclosed my idea to any one, So they can't judge my game yet:). I understand I am going to need to disclose the idea at some point but I would need a NDA (non-disclosure agreement) put in place before I just give out the idea. The game would be played by adults too or any where in the range of 4-25. Your option 2 sounds more like my cuppa Tea. I would pay for the development stage for who ever to make the game at what ever cost, well with in reason to the going rates for development. I don't want to say what the game is but I know there is other games out there with similar physics to how my game would run. Millions of these are sold every year for the ages these games where created so I think my game would do really well too.

Thanx once again for all your comments I do read them everyday & will take them on board.

Supplyfox.

Hi Alberth,
My goal is to make this game a reality & yes of course to make money from it in the end. It was said in a earlier post that I was just thinking about the glory or money, If you read up & I said back that I had not thought that much about the cash it would generate, the idea came from spending some time with my son who is 7. Start to plant the seed was meant in a way that I came here to get the ball rolling or find some one who maybe knows some one else who could work with me to get the game developed & on the shelfs a.s.a.p. I have had many inventions in the past & find I was just that little too late & the patents would already be in place:(. I had a idea to fit x2 vibrating hoppers onto a top soil loading lorry because at the end of the day there would be loads of soil like clay stuck in the top of the lorry. They used to have the loader held high & run the lorry forward & backwards to try & shake it out but this caused other problems. Or they would get a 360 digger & spend a hour at the end of there shift to scrape it all out. I had the idea back in 2003, I never did anything about it until 2006 when I could be arsed to search the patents & guess what it was patented in 2004 or something like that. I was guttered:(. Opportunities On other ideas too like a double sided tape measure so you can hold the tape in its strongest position & still read the measurements, Once again beat to the post:(. Whilst on a mad one I al so Had a crazy idea maybe for the future or even now. Give me some feed back on this one..

The motor ways in the U.K have a steel barrier in the middle for obvious reasons, Perfect height for the impact on the doors of most cars, I was driving from Essex back to the midlands with my 2 year old girl at the time & thought what would happen if I got a blow out/front right tyre in the fast lane. Bosh! hit barrier, swerve back out into the motor way & probably cause more damage to other drivers behind us right? So my idea was to put these electromagnetic charges through the barrier on impact, Obviously not like Bang STOP! because that would be like hitting a brick wall at 70 mph but enough to hold the car to it & slow you down with out coming back into the motor-way. The electricity would come from the lamp posts once it had been change to DC current. I know it's crazy but I said to myself if it was to be tried out on some high crash rate road & I saved ONE persons life with it, I Would be happy.
The problem I see it that there is NO market for it! No One can buy it! & the government don't care to much about saving peoples lives or they would be doing now!.

Best wishes....Supplyfox:)

Hi Supplyfox,

You're kind of in a tough situation. Programmers get so many people who come along with ideas that they think are phenomenal - and unfortunately 99.9% or more fall into two categories:

1) Ideas that few people except the idea creator think will make a fun / workable game.

Or even more commonly:

2) Ideas that many, many people have thought of, but no one has developed due to technological constraints that the idea creator is not aware of.

This is why the "game pitch" has become so prevalent in the industry. Even people who end up making the big AAA titles usually have to go through this. Perfect example - Mirrors Edge 2. DICE had to pitch the idea to EA even though they already made a great first version that sold reasonably well. If DICE - proven developers who know what they are doing and can be counted on to produce, who made Battlefield and many other great games - have to pitch their game ideas, it's hard to imagine that someone who isn't well known in the industry could avoid doing so. Even more depressingly, EA rejected DICE's proposal to make a Mirrors Edge sequel.

Of course, you might actually have an idea that is totally innovative, compelling, and quite feasible to develop. But there are so many people who think that they are one of the exceptions, it not fair to expect potential developers of your game to be willing to go through all the hassles and potential legal complications of an NDA without any clue of what you are proposing.

A general idea of what a game is like is not very risky to make public. If it belongs to an existing genre, you can use other games as examples of what your game will be like without giving away the secret sauce. If you are starting a new genre, there is always plenty of room for multiple games in the beginning. Being the first to make a game is of little value - a lesson we can learn from Blockworld or Infiniminer. A lot of people think Notch was the first to make a game like Minecraft, when in fact he is quite upfront about having borrowed the idea. He was simply the first to turn a good idea into a good game.

Final thought: If you are determined to keep this idea secret, you have to make it all by yourself. NDA's are very difficult to enforce, and if your game is awesome, the people who work on it will want to talk about it. It's really, really hard to prevent leaks.

Thank you for you interest & comments Lachlan87 I like your thoughts on it. I understand its going to be hard but like I have said before I believe it will be out by 2013/2014 say summer time, people could already be working on it for all know. There would be no technological constraints its kinda been done before but in a different way. I want to just put my twist on it & know it could be done with the right people involved on it. I would work out a way to pay the developers to make it. It is on the tip of my tongue to say what it is but yes I'm worried it could be just taken over & I get nothing:(. I am in a very tough situation hence why I am on here to try & find the answers:).

I like all the comments I have received on here & I do take note of them all. I just wish some one would say. Try this or I can help or Phone these, e-mails these etc etc. I would go on Dragons den or something & pitch it to them.lol. I just don't have the answers & wish I had.

over & out..Supplyfox.

Well, you could try http://www.vworker.com/ -- it used to go by the name Rent-A-Coder, and you can go there to get your work outsourced. That would be the place to check first, I imagine.

_________________
What most people don't understand about "enlightenment" is that it is not an end-goal; but where you find yourself just before taking a new "first step."

What do you consider the 'right money' ? Game development by companies like Sony, Crytek, etc costs millions, not counting the cost of advertising and publishing.

Are you pitching a full AAA title or something more on the scale of xbox arcade, wiiware, etc?


For the former you either need to be fantastically wealthy or somehow get a publisher on board before thinking about approaching a company.

For the latter, contact existing indy teams with offers of cash and understand that returns are far from guaranteed.
-avoid wiiware (no sales to be had here).
-iPad games and similar are very much free to buy, pay to play these days - risky.