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2.5d game framework trying to fill various positions

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workmad3

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:06 pm

Bibliotherapist

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:23 pm
Posts: 6210
Location: Manchester, UK

Andy wrote:

Almar Joling wrote:

I disagree, someone has to make the software, someone has to be paid for it, because someone (we) make a living out of it.

Given that people seem to be happy to make software for free, I don't see how this argument works.

If one day we decided that copyright and patent law didn't apply to software, do you really think it would be the end of software development?

Copyright should always apply to software. Patents shouldn't imo, although there aren't really many cases of big patent holders actually sueing others over them

Without copyright, then none of the licences would actually work as they rely on the copyright protection to stop the licenced work just being copied

If that happens, then it wouldn't surprise me if most of the software world did change.

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Almar

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:49 pm

Babirusa

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:55 pm
Posts: 9241
Location: The Netherlands

Andy wrote:

Almar Joling wrote:

I disagree, someone has to make the software, someone has to be paid for it, because someone (we) make a living out of it.

What is probably the typical job of people making the free software? Football or tennis player? a cook? or a programmer? How will those people pay their house/food/etc.? Certainly not by donations only. How will hardware, tools, location, communication be financed? Certainly there are forms of sponsorship - often by companies which make software -.

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Andy

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:20 pm

Technomaniac

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:27 am
Posts: 3249
Location: Sydney, Australia

You are adding to what I said. I said that people would keep on making software even if it wasn't protected by copyright.

I didn't say that the people who make their living would keep their jobs, or that it would be a good thing, or that copyright shouldn't apply to software, or that patents shouldn't apply to software. All of those things are irrelevant to what I said, and this post doesn't give any more information on my standing with those things either.

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Almar

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:39 pm

Babirusa

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:55 pm
Posts: 9241
Location: The Netherlands

Andy wrote:

I agree completely with the above. what you said earlier. I think we were talking sideways

. (I do think that software patents aren't good though.)

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Machaira

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:30 pm

King Code Monkey

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:05 pm
Posts: 11182
Location: Abingdon, MD

Almar Joling wrote:

(I do think that software patents aren't good though.)

QFT!

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Andy

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:44 am

Technomaniac

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:27 am
Posts: 3249
Location: Sydney, Australia

Yeah, software patents are pretty bad.

And just in case this thread isn't offtopic enough yet - Machaira, have you considered getting your blog hosted somewhere else? Every time I visit it, it takes ages for it to load. Just then I did it with a stopwatch:

0 - started stopwatch (this was quite some time after I clicked the link)
1min 30s - title loaded
1min 40s - grey background colour
3min 8s - page is loaded (images weren't, but they loaded very quickly)

I don't know why it is so slow. But I used to think that your host was down until I left the tab open for a while.

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mvBarracuda

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:10 am

Octogenarian

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 81

Andy wrote:

Hmm sorry, but our blog works just fine from here (Germany).

What's really funny is that the blog, SVN and a bunch of other tools we use for development are hosted by an Australian hosting service, so I should work really fast for you considering that you're from Down Under.

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Last edited by mvBarracuda on Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Machaira

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:15 am

King Code Monkey

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:05 pm
Posts: 11182
Location: Abingdon, MD

Andy wrote:

Hmm, loads in about 5 seconds for me. Are you on dial-up or something? :confused

live.com is an MS deal, it's not some no-name host. I've never had a problem with it.

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Andy

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:04 am

Technomaniac

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:27 am
Posts: 3249
Location: Sydney, Australia

mvBarracuda - sorry, I wasn't complaining about your site (which loads in a few seconds and looks very nice by the way).

Machaira - I'm on a 24Mbit connection. All other websites load quickly. Yours is the only one I've noticed with this slowness. But it really does take an excessive amount of time to load here, which could be bad if you are hoping for a larger audience there. However when I try now, I get reasonable times (15 seconds for everything)

I wouldn't have brought out the stopwatch if it hadn't taken so long before, so this isn't an isolated slow-load.

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mvBarracuda

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:27 am

Octogenarian

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 81

We've just released our first public FIFE version in 2007:
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/fife/FIFE_2007.0_win32.exe

Install guide:
1. Download
2. Execute the self-extracting 7zip archive and uncompress to a folder of your choice
3. Read the readme.txt that can be found within the folder where you uncompressed FIFE

And here are two screenshots of the new version:

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workmad3

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:06 am

Bibliotherapist

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:23 pm
Posts: 6210
Location: Manchester, UK

Machaira wrote:

Andy wrote:

Hmm, loads in about 5 seconds for me. Are you on dial-up or something? :confused

live.com is an MS deal, it's not some no-name host. I've never had a problem with it.

about 5 secs here too... where are you based andy? are you sure the problem isn't on your end?(isp may just have an artificial slowdown on MS sites for example)

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Andy

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:32 pm

Technomaniac

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:27 am
Posts: 3249
Location: Sydney, Australia

workmad3 wrote:

about 5 secs here too... where are you based andy? are you sure the problem isn't on your end?(isp may just have an artificial slowdown on MS sites for example)

Australia. The problem may very well be at my end. But given that I've only ever seen it happen on this website, I'd suspect the problem lies elsewhere. Also, now when I try, I'm getting much more reasonable times, which suggests that either the problem is sporadic, or fixed (it wasn't a once off though, nor is it only a recent thing)

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Sirisian

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:35 pm

Dexterous Droid

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:13 pm
Posts: 3769
Location: Michigan, 'US' of 'A'. Below Canada.

OMG! I put the .exe to my desktop and extracted to the desktop. :rofl

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Machaira

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:18 pm

King Code Monkey

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:05 pm
Posts: 11182
Location: Abingdon, MD

Sirisian wrote:

OMG! I put the .exe to my desktop and extracted to the desktop. :rofl

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Sirisian

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm

Dexterous Droid

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:13 pm
Posts: 3769
Location: Michigan, 'US' of 'A'. Below Canada.

oh yah it didn't work, it just crashed when I ran it. got these in the text file

Quote:

00000079 RenderManager: new backend: OpenGL
00000080 RenderManager: new backend: SDL
00000080 RenderManager: selecting backend: OpenGL
00000085 VFSSourceFactory: new provider: Fallout2-dat
00000085 VFSSourceFactory: new provider: Fallout1-dat
00000085 VFS: no source for master.dat found
00000085 VFS: no source for master.dat found
00000085 VFSSourceFactory: Fallout1-dat thought it could load master.dat but didn't succeed (NotFound: master.dat)
00000108 VFSSourceFactory: no provider for master.dat found
00000108 VFS: no source for critter.dat found
00000108 VFS: no source for critter.dat found
00000108 VFSSourceFactory: Fallout1-dat thought it could load critter.dat but didn't succeed (NotFound: critter.dat)
00000108 VFSSourceFactory: no provider for critter.dat found
00000108 maploader: new maploader: Fallout
00000108 maploader: new maploader: XMLMap
00000232 LuaScript: Scripting enabled: Lua
00001338 LuaScript: loading file: content/scripts/fallout2.lua
00001343 GameStateManager: registered gamestate: MapView

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/\/////////// \\\\\\\\\\\/\S
/\/////////\\ //\\\\\\\\\/\I - Assault Wars
/\///////\\//|\\//\\\\\\\/\R - - Work in Progress
/\/////\\////|\\\\//\\\\\/\I
/\///\\/////\|/\\\\\//\\\/\S

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mvBarracuda

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:37 am

Octogenarian

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 81

Sirisian wrote:

oh yah it didn't work, it just crashed when I ran it. got these in the text file

Quote:

Please post your FIFE.bat too

Do you own a copy of either Fallout 1 or Fallout 2? In this case you'll need to copy the master.dat & critter.dat from their CD into the FIFE folder. If you don't do so, you won't be able to view the Fallout (1/2) maps.

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Sirisian

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:11 pm

Dexterous Droid

Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:13 pm
Posts: 3769
Location: Michigan, 'US' of 'A'. Below Canada.

oh I thought this was a stand alone game thing you made. No test maps or anything? I don't own FO 1 or 2. :rofl

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/\///////\\//|\\//\\\\\\\/\R - - Work in Progress
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/\///\\/////\|/\\\\\//\\\/\S

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mvBarracuda

Post subject:

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:14 am

Octogenarian

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 81

Sirisian wrote:

oh I thought this was a stand alone game thing you made. No test maps or anything? I don't own FO 1 or 2. :rofl

How about reading the included README.TXT? ;-) We've got (really ugly) test maps, all details are described in the readme file.

Btw.: The src package for our 2007.0 release is finally ready for downloading.

Grab it here:
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/fife/F ... rc.tar.bz2

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sik0fewl

Post subject:

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:29 am

Super Donkey Monkey Wrestler

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:15 pm
Posts: 951
Location: Saskatchewan

Jamie wrote:

Other licenses like the LGPL and BSD allow you to create proprietary software, so don't help the free software community as much.

LGPL still helps the free software community quite a bit. If a proprietary vendor decides to use an LGPL library in there closed-source game/program they may find ways to improve the LGPL'd library and they will submit those changes to the developers. This allows their game/program to stay closed-source, but still allow for improvements with the LGPL library.

Also, LGPL, BSD, etc libraries are more likely to be used by aspring game programmers and indie game programmers because they cost nothing. This contributes to the popularity of the the library which indirectly contributes to the amount of documentation and other resources available which makes it easier for the next guy to learn.

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me22

Post subject:

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:02 am

13375p34k3r

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 1420
Location: A Nation inside a Nation.

sik0fewl wrote:

Jamie wrote:

Other licenses like the LGPL and BSD allow you to create proprietary software, so don't help the free software community as much.

QFT.

Using GPL for libraries will just mean that they'll only be used by hobbyists. LGPL is a much better choice. Not using BSD is fair, though. It's a tad too free for my liking, in many cases.

Boost is a great example, however, of a BSD-like-licensed product that still is a valuable asset to the community. It's used by many big name software companies. (Ever used Adobe Acrobat Reader? If so, you've used something made using Boost.) The license basically boils down to "do whatever you want with it in compiled form, but you can't remove the copyright notices from source code".

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