Hey there, new registrant here.

I've been interested in learning to program ever since I was about 14 (Almost 19 now). The types of games I've wanted to program have changed vastly over the years, but in the past year I've finally settled on a solid idea, and added to the fact that I am just out of highschool and looking to start attending college, I thought I might as well get started.

I am ready and have the willpower to dig into some tutorials and course books. I know it's going to be hard, slow, and frustrating at first. I realize I won't be making any good-looking games for at least 2 years, maybe more. That's alright, I have to start somewhere

The problem I'm having is choosing a language to start with. I've narrowed my selection to either C++ or Java. Both seem like good, solid, popular languages. They both are used in a lot of games. But I'm not sure which one is.... 'easier' to start out with, or more importantly, which one handles the running of an MMORPG better.

I'm not planning on starting work on this MMORPG for a long time, not until I have done multiple smaller projects and have learned much more about whichever language I choose. But when I DO get to that point, I'd like to have a good ground knowledge in a language that supports that type of game best.

So, which language would you recommend for general game programming and specifically MMORPG programming, as a beginner?

Any advantages or disadvantages to either language?

Anything else I should know about before diving in?

Thank you in advance!

-Juraka

_________________
Since writing on bathroom walls is done neither for monetary gain nor critical acclaim, it is the purest form of art.

Discuss.

You forgot the 3rd choice - Neither (or Other) - added that for you.

My recommendation would be C# and XNA Game Studio.


Good looking games are a result of having a good artist, not the language you use so much.


There are more important things about MMORPG development than the language.

If you're not looking to get into the game industry working for a big studio or you don't use a non-Windows PC I see no reason to use C++. You can use Java for game development, but why would you?!?

_________________
Bored? Head on over to my blog and see what I'm up to.

Microsoft XNA MVP

No... I don't think editing the post was particularly helpful.

Juraka, give each of them a day trying to build something simple. Stick with which ever of the two you enjoyed the most. All the tools you need are freely available, and neither will solve all of your problems.

I would guess that Java would be easier to get started in, but in some ways a bit more difficult to understand (there isn't as clear a mapping between what you type and what happens in my opinion). So, you can quickly get started and not have to worry about lots of things (where by lots of things, I'm mostly meaning memory management).

With C++, you are forced to understand most of what is going on, so you will have to learn a bit more before you can get as much done, but you will have a better idea how your program works at a low level (which for some people isn't important, and that's ok).

Personally, I'm not much of a fan of garbage collection (like in Java), so given the choice of those two languages, I'd choose C++.

There are heaps of people who use both though, so just pick one and stick with it... when you find it difficult, just know that it is because programming is difficult, and it isn't that you chose the wrong language.

_________________
Trying is the first step towards failure
b

I think it's fair to say that for a beginner, an MMORPG is going to be like... 10 years away.

There are two things that you need to develop skill at, that takes time and cannot be crammed:

(1) Coping with the complexity of the project.
(2) Becoming fluent with the language.

Some projects would easily overwhelm a beginner. And that reminds me of learning mathematics at school/college.

We don't start 5 year olds on calculus -- we teach them how to add first... then subtract.. then multiply... then share... etc. Do you remember how hard it was to do long division, even though you could add easily? If you couldn't add, then long division would be totally beyond you.

Then eventually we're taught how to solve quadratic equations, which involves quite a bit of arithmetic, and it's taken for granted we can do that mindlessly. There are whole set of questions on quadratic equations alone. Then we were taught how to solve some kinds of differential equations, which requires solving a quadratic equation as part of the solution, Even when quadratic equations become second nature, the new problem is as hard again. Then we're taught how to model some stuff in fluid mechanics, and that involves solving umpteen differential equations...

My point is that you need to get good at programming step by step, just like mathematics, otherwise things are overwhelming: mind bending puzzles that involve mind bending component puzzles.

In my opinion, C++ requires a lot of attention to detail, that can at times feel pedantic, and involve making unavoidable digressions. But its a fast and powerful and extremely versatile language. Java perhaps offers a simpler route? But for whatever reasons, it isn't the language of choice for commercial quality games.

_________________
I ain't pushing no moon buttons.

I've decided to go with C++. I almost wanted to try a more obscure language (not as much 'obscure' as 'non-mainstream') but I thought that using an 'industry standard' would give me plenty of tools and tutorials and support to learn with.

Thanks for the replies guys!

-Juraka

_________________
Since writing on bathroom walls is done neither for monetary gain nor critical acclaim, it is the purest form of art.

Discuss.

Man, the "other" option wasn't there when I voted.

_________________
In brightest day, in blackest night. No evil shall escape my sight. Let those who worship evil's might, beware my power... Green Lantern's light!
Twitter!

See the beginning of my reply to Mach (make sure you read the quotes)

_________________
Trying is the first step towards failure
b

Hopefully he'll come back and share how things went.

_________________
Bored? Head on over to my blog and see what I'm up to.

Microsoft XNA MVP

I can share my history with programming languages. I think that it may help you with choosing one.

The very first programming language I have learned in my life was an old BASIC dialect (MSX-BASIC to be precise). BTW nowadays I don't even consider BASIC to be a programming language.

Then many years later (I mean some years ago) I have switched to Java because it is object-oriented and from what I can tell this language is now widely used and I can tell you that it is fairly easy to learn as a first-time language. The API is huge, but it's worth learning the parts which will be useful for your projects. Oh, and what's more, by learning standard Java, you can later learn how to develop mobile games for cellphones, PDAs, etc. fairly easily with Java ME (it is very very fun).

But then, as I was learning Java, I have become convinced that it is just too abstract and high-level, let's put it that way. That's when I switched to C++, which is still object-oriented and is built on top of C, which is (as far as I know, and I may be wrong) the most widely used programming language ever. The only problem is that C++ may seem harder than other object-oriented languages because you have to deal with the so-called "pointers", which concept is essential (and a bit hard) to understand and get the hang of.

And now, I'm stuck with both Java and C++, and I can tell you that for me they are just enough for the programs that I have developed so far.

But still I think you should start with a programming language which is at the same time easy to learn and that you feel comfortable with it.

Best regards

_________________
I love programming games and other software in C++ and Java. Also, I have recently been studying and developing some fairly complex mobile applications with Java ME.

Check out my blog about everything in general (in Portuguese):

http://fernando-aires.blogspot.com/

I chose C++...
Yes, its supposebly "harder" than other languages, but considering what you want to achieve, I suggest C++.

Java is much easier than C++, but when programming a game you should not think about "easier", instead you should be thinking about "most effective". For me, Java is easy, but when it comes to games, especially 3D games, I would choose C++ over Java every time.

If you want to make MMORPG game "easy" choose a pre-programmed program, such as Realm Crafter, but you have to be willing to pay some money for that.

In general, for any 3D game, I will choose C++, 2D, it depends, but most likely Java.[/url]

http://gpwiki.org/index.php/How_do_I_get_Started
http://gpwiki.org/index.php/Picking_a_Language

If you choose C++ then you will spend all of your time learning and misusing C++. So only choose C++ if you really want to learn C++ (e.g. you want to become a professional programmer).

Java's learning curve is not as steep as C++ and may provide tools that are a bit more friendly to newcomers. It's also easier to port Java code and you can develop for android.

Also check out http://www.vbgore.com

_________________
Heard in #gpwiki: <wzl> is there some serious grammar fail in your line or am i just too intelligent for your logic