I have been trying to expand my knowledge of different languages a bit more recently. My latest was learning Flash and ActionScript 2, but it just didn't tickle my fancy. Right now I am trying to focus on languages that can be used in browser applets (that the right word?) - just run from the browser like Flash, Java applets, etc. My focus is, as you can probably assume by where I'm posting, on games.

Anyways, so far all I have checked out was ActionScript. It wasn't too bad, seemed decent for very, very small tasks, but I found that even making a simple game in it started to become too much code to handle. The integrated IDE for AS2 built into Flash 8 was just horrid. I know there are some external IDEs, which I tried, but then it just becomes too much of a hassle to work hand-in-hand with Flash and seems to lose most benefits of the language. I also could not stand such lose typing - strict typing is a huge plus for me.

I was thinking of next trying Java but also remembered SilverLight is out there. From what I understand, SilverLight is a lot like Flash and with version 2 we can use .NET languages and IDE with it - am I correct on this assumption? If so, what are the major differences between using, say, C# stand-alone and in SilverLight? Seeing as it can use .NET languages, I would assume that it would require the .NET framework, but I am seeing on the Wikipedia page that it works on Mac, too. Also, on a very basic level for a very crappy artist, how similar would you consider SilverLight to Flash in the graphic development department?

I'm not at all looking for a "which language is generally best" or anything, but just a few pointers on, given the type of programming style I prefer, which language I would possibly enjoy the most. Of course, I'm open to suggestions of other languages, too. Any feedback is appreciated.

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NetGore - Open source online RPG engine

spodi, I'm working on a flash game at work. I use ActionScript3 using Flex SDK (free downloadable) and the IDE called FlashDevelop. No annoying interface, only code editting! I work with bitmapdata stuff.

I used Sirisian's tank demo thingy (not sure what the URL is) as 'learning root' for the bitmapdata rendering, and really got it running nicely now .

Only downside of FlashDevelop is that you cannot set pivot points ofcourse, 'cause you do not work with movieclips. The challenge is for you to come uip with a nice solution there .

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FlashDevelop was actually the IDE I used for the external editor, too, though using AS2. It was quite a nice IDE, much nicer than Flash's, though there was quite a bit issues going back and forth between the two.

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NetGore - Open source online RPG engine

AS3 is here and now.

I use FlashDevelop as my IDE with AS3 and have been using OOP just like I would with any other language. There's a lot of disadvantages with AS3. No generic/template support. Also data types are limited. But processing power is there but gets used for rendering more than not. (software rendering ftl). But cross platform and pretty much everyone has it installed.

But yeah here:

http://www.assaultwars.com/flash/flasht ... index.html
http://www.assaultwars.com/flash/flasht ... source.zip

(yeah it's glitched, I made it for someone making a tank game)

Copypixels > the bitmap draw command. Aka load an image:

quick texture loader I made for people (it's in the tank demo)
www.assaultwars.com/flash/texturemanageras3.zip

If you want speed with rendering you'll be forced to create an array of bitmaps with different rotations like 35 is fine for most things and render them via copy pixels.

That's the fun part.

Knowing you spodi, you might want to get into networking. If you need binary writers/readers for flash and C# I have development versions of them from my current engine.

Anything else just ask.

In case you don't believe me about how fast copy pixels is:
using the draw command even with bitmaps:
http://www.assaultwars.com/flash/pg2/pg2.html
just rendering pixels (old demos so no texture stuff in them)
http://www.assaultwars.com/flash/pg2/pg2b.html

(also if the idea of right clicking messes with you there are DIV hacks and all sorts of stuff to allow the flash player to detect right click)

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Oh shux, you know me so well.



Everyone except for me it seems, since I am seeing nothing on those pages.



That'd be nice to see - always got sick of Flash completely ruining the right mouse button.

Performance probably wouldn't be too big of an issue for me since I don't really do too high-end graphics - not really my style. As long as the server can perform well, which would most likely not be using the same language nor does it have to, then I'm happy.

How well does Flash support caching and segmented downloading? For example, could I keep a local cache of graphics and game data on the client so they do not have to download it every time? And can I download only stuff I am needing at the time without too much code hacking? Also, if I can keep my own local cache on the user's computer, what are the limitations and such of it? In other words, how flexible is the file I/O for the client?

Finally, how strict is the AS3 typing? More strict (at least optionally) than AS2 I hope? I was looking into haXe and MTASC because they had a stricter typing option but seemed to be quite a pain setting them up to use.

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NetGore - Open source online RPG engine

Click on them sorry forgot to say. And for the tank one just wait. Knowing you, you still don't have DSL. W, A, S, D click to shoot.

AS3 is stricter. You can prompt the user to give you the ability to save data on their computer. I don't. My current game engine does dynamic loading so it's not really a problem.

IO is asynchronous or something close to it. Not sure. I've never had a problem.

Just remember flash can be decompiled almost 1 to 1. It's only bad if you don't take precautions. I set up a lot of fail safes in my client and server to detect foul play. Not much you can do but ban IPs.

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I actually have 10 Mbit cable. Nothing about needing the newest version of Flash or anything is coming up. I'll try reinstalling Flash 9 and give it another try here in a bit. FireFox has always been iffy with getting new versions of Flash for me.



Dynamic loading, thats the phrase I was looking for. Good to hear it can do that. I would assume it would as it seems like it'd be quite important, just that I never ran into anything about it. Thanks!



Whenever doing networking code where the client is distributed to people who don't own/manage the server (as in games), I always go under the assumption that any data from the client can and will be invalid or malicious and that any data on the client can and will be reversed, so this isn't too much of a problem for me since I always just assume its going to be done anyways.

Well I think I will have to get AS3 a try here some time since it is starting to really peek my interest.

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NetGore - Open source online RPG engine

I've never liked coding Java Applets, but they seem to be the defacto for making online application.......that being said, you don't see very many Java Applet games, because they are so difficult to code (and applets just aren't fast enough).
You could always try shockwave. It's used primarily for games, and there are some very cool ones like: http://www.shockwave.com/gamelanding/delirium.jsp, as well as a bit old, but still quite entertaining, 3D FPS made in shockwave: http://www.shockwave.com/gamelanding/alienx.jsp

I've never done any shockwave programing, though, so I couldn't tell you how the language is.

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*Cough, Cough
www.peachysoft.com/cavernsalpha2

Java Applets are hardware accelerated. All the problems I have with them are to do with how they manage input.

Personally I think Silverlight looks very interesting.

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Attack of the Meeplings - Free 2D Arcade Shooter
Caverns of Underkeep - Free Browser Based Roguelike

When I said dynamic loading I meant I set up the server to tell the player exactly what it needs and it retrieves it from my web server which holds all of the game content. (easier since it synchronizes my map editor and server). It's really efficient. However, it will be a while until I do another test since I've been rewriting the engine and building it still.

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I have to agree that it is suspicious on the lack of Java applets out there. Its not like no one uses Java, though. I can not tell if it is either from the lack of experience of the creators or the support of Java applets themself, but it just that most are just sub-standard quality. Caverns by Joshua was amazingly well put together in comparison to about any other Java applet game I have seen, and easily the best indy one I have seen. There was no problems at all as far as the applet went except for the crashing when switching tabs and the bug on the second to last level.



Yeah, thats what I figured you meant and the answer I was looking for. I just love the idea of being able to jump into the game pretty much (as long as done correctly) once just the core is loaded along with the content around the user's initial position and either just holding off on the rest or discreetly streaming it behind the scenes. Less skipping, get into the game faster and can be easily used for using less bandwidth.

Has anyone here used SilverLight? I know Machaira promotes it every chance he gets (I could see him casually muttering it between sentences when talking to people ) but have never heard of anyone here using it. Its quite surprising how so much text about it can say so little on what exactly it is, probably since everyone writing about it seems to be focused on how it compares to Flash.

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NetGore - Open source online RPG engine

The tabs thingy is still a bit funny, but that other bug is fixed

The code behind Caverns is probably what I'd call a medium-level knowledge - theres lots of OO stuff and its about 25k lines now. I doubt I could have made it without knowing a bit about OO design and reading a little about design patterns.

I actually blame the lack of java applet games due to sun not allowing keyboard and mouse polling, as well as other stupid things they disallow** For some reason I cannot find out the x,y position of the mouse when I feel like it, their security restrictions don't allow me - It's almost like they don't really care about being a 'games platform' - I mean, Sun is going to face serious competition by Microsoft (in the form of .net and silverlight) and Adobe (in the form of flash) not to mention these new web technologies and dynamic languages, over the next 5 or so years and they're really going to have to do something to differenciate themselves and I'm not sure if having truck loads of legacy code in the form of business apps is going to be enough.

hrm... I kinda rambled on a bit there...

Flash might be more used because it's faster to get stuff up and running? And artists can use it, and from some of the flash games that have impressed me, I really don't think you have to be a programmer to be a good game designer. But there have also been many games that I've just gone 'ugh this is horrible.



I don't use silverlight, but I wouldn't mind learning it if I was to get a job doing webdev stuff. The only reason why I haven't looked into it more is becasue I'm waiting to see what games people make with it before investing my time. (I also can't remember if it's hardware accelerated or not? Which is pretty important for games, and my slow computer.)

I plan on making one more webgame before returning back to downloadable games. And I'll be using java for it.

** Edit I'd just like to say that most of the input problems can be solved with 3rd party solutions. Which is fine for downloadble java games, but for applets I'd really rather not have a security warning before someone plays the game. (Although it works for runescape)

** Edit Additional - What I really think needs to be made is a browser technology that is designed from the ground up for games. Think XNA-in-your-browser or something.

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Attack of the Meeplings - Free 2D Arcade Shooter
Caverns of Underkeep - Free Browser Based Roguelike

ya....runescape is the major exception to poorly made applets. Simply amazing what they've been able to do with it. Now gameplay...that's another matter

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Worlds at War (Current Project) - http://www.awkward-games.com
Ganadu'r, The Eternal Sage (Other Current Project) - http://rpg.naget.com
Programming tutorials and web-design services: http://www.wyrmmage.com