After 20 minutes looking for a free one,
I get the impression I'm wasting my time.

A typical ad might go...



Common Lisp looks really interesting for a second language for me.
Can anyone point me to a suitable IDE.

Or maybe you think Common Lisp suks and I should'nt go there ?

I'm not a lisp person (or an emacs person either), but surely emacs is the thing to use if you want to code in lisp.

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Trying is the first step towards failure
b

There only seems to be one free lisp ide and its crippleware.

Its a shame I'm a pennyless pauper,
common lisp looked really interesting.

I've been ruminating for 2 months now on a second language,
and I'm sick of thinking about it.

Can anyone here except Mancharia tell me which language to learn.
Preferably one of you old hands.
And I'll quit the thinking and just do it.

No offense Mancharia, I respect you as much as anyone who knows what there talking about,but for some reason I have an aversion to the name c#.

There is a good reason that there isn't just one language that everyone uses - different people prefer different things, different jobs are best solved with different tools.

On the flip side, there really isn't much difference between all of them, if you are finding programming difficult, then chances are it isn't the language you are using (programming is something that is hard to do).

So, here are the tools I use (with various degrees of frequency):
1) C: very portable and very easy to deploy, heaps of libraries for it, fast, and helps you shoot yourself in the foot

2) Ruby: very pleasant and very easy to write for, reasonably good library selection, though you aren't spoilt for choice, slow, and hard to shoot yourself in the foot. (interpret foot shooting as buffer overrun and similar). Deployment is a bit of a pain a lot of the time.

3) Python: Some love it, I don't. But it does have lots of libraries as a result of being a bit more mature than ruby (this also helps it for deployment)

4) C#: It isn't bad

I'm no longer an IDE person, I have a text editor (gedit) and a terminal. I might one day want an IDE, but I think it will probably be one I've written because I don't really enjoy using the current ones available. So, I can't really help you with my IDE experience.

I can tell you that some people claim that Eclipse is the be all and end all of IDEs, and if that is the case and you are really after an IDE, then perhaps Java is your language of choice (I think it can do other languages, but the Java support is superior). I believe Eclipse is also known for its epic load times, so you can look forward to that.

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Trying is the first step towards failure
b

Cheers Andy.

I'll definatly check out Ruby.
I've already gone through some python and I dont think its for me.

I like C alot, especially the I/O for some weird reason.
I really dig how you can go, printf ("%d blabla %s %E %g" etc...

I keep hearing Java is so slow,but if Eclipse is that good ?

l8tr.

if your looking for a functional langauge lisp is quite nice however there really isn't an ide like visual studio, dev-cpp, codeblocks etc for it or any other functional language I know of. The closest thing I can think of is dr scheme which is nice but it meant more as a learning tool then anything. Your best bet is to get a nice syntax editor and use something else to build (make files come to mind). However something that they do have that most languages do not is an interactive enviroment where you can type something and instantly see the results.

I've experimented with a few functional languages such as lisp, scheme and varations of ml. Of all the ones I've used ocaml seemed to be the most reasonable for making real world applications while the others were just nice for doing algorithms. That being said I haven't touched ocaml in awhile, mostly because my work requires c/c++.

What are you look for in a language? Are just looking for something with neat/different ideas then the mainstream or rather something to replace c like languages?

I believe that learning a functional language such as lisp is a good thing. They teach some concepts that c languages don't have. They also focus more on the problem at hand rather then all the extra details.

So in a nutshell it really boils down to what you are looking for in language, once you have established that then it is a lot easier to give recommendations.

That was something that caught my eye about lisp.
Sure maybe its just fanfair or an excuse for a bad programmer to pretend he's good (not talking about myself there).

I'm getting really quite comfortable with c++ and will continue learning it and cutting down on codebloat.
But if theres a language out there that is truly as concise and compact as that quote says then Im gonna learn that language.

I wont be doing Lisp until I can afford the commercial IDE,
I'm checking out O'cami again and Ruby now, I wander how lolcode is coming on?

thanks for the replies.

<edit>
F*** I can't find anything today.
I think this has something to do with a mac and australias retarded internet system.

Maybe I'll just learn lolcode,all the hype any language presents itself with is starting to get on me tits.

Your Google-fu must be weak, my son. The way of the cheapskate Common Lisp programmer is Slime. To master Slime, one must master Emacs. Do not hesitate though -- your perseverance will quickly be payed back in pure enlightenment.

That, or you could go the simple-easy way: http://www.weitz.de/starter-pack/

I quite liked lisp when I played around with it

I used Allegro CL when I was learning it. It has the limitation of only allowing a 50mb heap, but while you are learning the language this is much larger than anything you are ever going to do with it It's certainly large enough for fairly decent sized 1-man projects (I never even came close to the limit)

If you can stand emacs, then slime is also a good route as suggested.

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MARIJN IS ALIVE!

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That was my first reaction when I seen his post as well.

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Twitter!

Ditto, Long time no see. *waves*

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10 PRINT "Bad Monkey ";
20 GOTO 10

Heh. Hi guys!

Same, I actually checked if this wasn't a necro'ed topic!

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Lisp is the worst language ever!

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Onward and upward!

Go banana!

Lisp is the best language ever!

Let the flame wars BEGIN!

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God must love stupid people, he made so many.
theraje: 'God doesn't love stupid people, they're just easier to make'
http://sharedillusions.blogspot.com

Ah, the beautiful tradition of language flame-wars. So, obviously, Lisp is not for the dilettante programmers. As high-grade Internet troll Paul Graham says, those who do not understand the advanced features of a language are bound to consider them useless cruft that they do not need, while once you get them, you'll be unable to figure how all those lesser life-forms are able to feel satisfied with a language without them. There were features present -- clearly beneficial, solid features -- in the Lisps of 30 years ago, that are still sorely lacking in today's drone-languages like Java and C#. In fact, even on their purported strength, object-orientation, the Common Lisp Object System merrily wipes the floor with them. So there!

(That being said, I'm rather leaning towards languages less messy than Common Lisp, such as Haskell, these days.)

I tried to learn it but its confusing. I look at code from another language and I can understand whats going on. I look at Lisp code and everything is inside out!

We have a project at work, in Lisp, and I was told to maintain it. I recommended that we scrap the project and start over

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Onward and upward!

Go banana!

hmmm...I've never used Lisp, but I've done a bit of work in Haskell, and I was quite happy with it (Haskell is similar to Lisp, right? I think it is... XD). Learning Haskell took awhile, and it was definitely confusing, but it's given me a different perspective on how things should be done in conventional programming languages, and Haskell is amazing for some projects....especially parsers.

Just my two cents
-wyrmmage

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So, because you failed to understand it, it became a bad language? [/flame bait]

_________________
God must love stupid people, he made so many.
theraje: 'God doesn't love stupid people, they're just easier to make'
http://sharedillusions.blogspot.com