Who have heard about it? The new language in development.
Do you think it will replace the C++ when it's finished?

The C++ language is the most powerful language right now, do you think it will be the same?

Who is planning learning c++0x?

I wonder if c++0x will replace c++ in the development of games.

It's not a new language; it's a new version of the C++ standard. There have been a couple different versions in the past.

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C# FTW!

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Microsoft XNA MVP

How is C# doing in the game world these days? I know that it was a bit slow to get started, but I'd be interested to know how it is progressing. Can I go to the shops and buy a C# game off the shelf yet? (EDIT: I should clarify that this isn't a troll, I'm not expecting any particular answer because I honestly don't know)

I suspect that c++0x will be a bit like c99.

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You mean besides XNA Game Studio?

http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=20850 - yeah, this is a bit old.

Not an off-the-shelf game (and Managed C++ not C#, but still the .NET Framework), but still cool - http://www.vertigo.com/quake2.htm

The upcoming Schizoid game - http://www.torpexgames.com/

I'm anticipating that once XNA 2.0 rolls out later this year with the networking features and other new stuff that more people, albeit indies and hobbyists, will jump on board. The game industry in general has no reason to change. Reduced development time isn't enough of an incentive I guess.

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Ohh yeah. True, it's a new standard for the C++.

C# isn't replacing the c++ does it? C++ is the most powerful language out for now.

C++ is still the most prevalent language at the moment (won't comment on power, as that changes definition depending on task).

C# is a completely separate language (MS is currently pushing it a lot more than C++... I personally think its so they have a business programming language they have more control over than C++, but thats cos I'm cynical )

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Yes, C# (or something similar) will replace C++.

C++ is not going to be the most powerful language for long. Like when 32+ core cpus come out in the next 1 or 2 years. C++ has far too much legacy functionality to make significant improvements in this space. Manually writing efficient threaded code for 32+ cores in C++ will not be practical or really even possible.

I disagree. C# depends on C++ for highly optimized libraries. Heck, C# isn't even compiled directly to machine code.



That's what libraries are for. Nobody writes their own threading code, even for one CPU.

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The language the runtime is written in is irrelevant.

You can't do a C++ threading library as well as a C# threading library because you can't do the same level of code analysis. And the whole design of C++ doesn't lend itself to good threading performance. Its designed for old systems, with extremely limited memory and one core.

Yes, it does the threading for C#, but you are missing the point, you will NOT be able to use 32+ cores as efficiently as the CLR team at Microsoft.

So, the fact that C and C++ are used on mainframes effectively with upwards of 1000 (or more) processors makes it no good for machines with 32+ processors?

I think you need to jump off the C# bandwagon a little bit there Struan

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"Coming out" and "becoming a standard" are two completely different things. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe theres already quite a few 16+ core CPUs out there. If not, at least 8+. I wouldn't be surprised if it is a long time before we see people putting 16-core CPUs into their computers unless both of the following are true:
- The clock rate per CPU is not drastically reduced in comparison to CPUs of equal price with 2 or 4 cores (~3.0 GHz)
- The price of the 16-core CPUs is not significantly higher than those of 2 or 4 cores.

Such high-end computers are often used for either games or servers. Now for servers, thats an easy one - servers, in my opinion, are one of the easier things to have take advantage of multiple cores, especially web servers, since it is often part of the design to break connections into groups. Web servers, each connection is individual from one another and has its own processing. Very easy multithreading there. For games, with map "sharding" or instancing, you again get very easy and distinguished groups. And then, the OS can go and take the multithreading even farther for you on the sockets (IOCP).

Now for games, most CPU time goes to what? Rendering and physics? Those both can be very hard things to multithread in comparison to the above. Even then, if DirectX and OpenGL are redesigned to support utilizing like 16 cores, only games designed for it can take advantage of it, so its not going to help any games currently out. Which means we have to wait for the support to be made for it, people to create games with it, then for those games to be released. Once enough of those games are released, THEN lots of cores may catch on.

Until then, games are just now utilizing 2 cores, and on rare occasions with high quality games, 4 cores.

Anyways, that gives C++ libraries plenty of time to be developed to support multiple cores, too.

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I just glanced at C++0x and that "auto" variable things sounds nice.

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I dislike C++ far more than I like C#, and I really like C#.

why?

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Cos he's a C# and M$ fanboy
[/flamebait]

More realistically, it's very hard to write good C++, its a lot easier to write good C#. If you are working in a team, or if you worked with C++ between it's creation and the release of standards compliant compilers (a gap of 20 years or more) then C++ teams and programmers can produce shockingly bad, difficult to read, impossible to debug code very easily.

With that around, its easy to develop a dislike for C++. I personally like C++ for what it will let me do (pretty much anything I want, as long as I work at it) without forcing a particular coding paradigm down my throat (believe it or not, not everything is an object ) and I like that C++ allows some really neat tricks with template metaprogramming and macros and the like

I've also seen the atrocities that people can produce though... that just makes me dislike bad developers rather than C++ though

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theraje: 'God doesn't love stupid people, they're just easier to make'
http://sharedillusions.blogspot.com

Uh oh ... *ducks*

-Bryk

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lies

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I don't think any one language is more powerful than any other. It's the developer writing the code that makes the application more powerful.

In my experience, C++ is a very versatile language, and in the hands of someone very experienced with it... quite amazing.

I don't know much about C# yet, but I do know it's an entirely different language, and to try to compare the two is like trying to say oranges are going to replace apples in the future. :-P

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Yeah, long iterator names are a pain. On the other hand, C# 3.0 has already added "var", which I believe is functionally equivalent.