Discussion related to the random level generator for the XNA MUD project.

_________________
Bored? Head on over to my blog and see what I'm up to.

Microsoft XNA MVP

I'd like to assist with the random level generator.

Jasmine is supposed to be working on it. You two can coordinate if it's needed.

_________________
Bored? Head on over to my blog and see what I'm up to.

Microsoft XNA MVP

Is it going to be like Diablo 2 where the levels are fixed (i.e. there is always a Den Of Evil near the beginning) but the layout/content of the levels is random?

Yes but I haven't started it yet. I've thought quite a bit about it. It would still be nice to see some typical examples of what these dungeons should look like.

I've checked one or two of those existing random generators but they seem to make long messy corridors that are often considerably longer than 10 paces long, and with many dead ends.

I have my own ideas how to make this generator, but like I say, having never seen this game genre before, a typical example would be helpful

But this component of the game isn't critical. Any temp map can be used while developing the bulk of the game.



I think the number of creeps and number of rooms will always be similar in the same dungeon level, but there will be some variety in the relative numbers of each creep class.

Jasmine, have you played Diablo 2? It is probably the best template for doing random level generation for a MUD.

I haven't no. I could get the demo.

Dammit... now I want to play Diablo 2 again... there goes another month of recreational coding

_________________
God must love stupid people, he made so many.
theraje: 'God doesn't love stupid people, they're just easier to make'
http://sharedillusions.blogspot.com

Heh, I just went through that problem while I was working on my book. It was fun, but I didn't get much accomplished.

_________________
Bored? Head on over to my blog and see what I'm up to.

Microsoft XNA MVP

I've tried the demo. It seems there are a couple of map generators in there.

Blood Moor / Cold Plains:
For each of these zone, the map generator apparently takes a rectangle made up of approximately 8x6 squares, removes two squares randomly from the middle, and some squares randomly from the sides, then threads a path through it to the neighbouring zone, and places a cave and some other stuff in there.

Caverns:
Each zone also has an underground cavern, which is generated less obviously, but produces some (fairly) linear but twisty dungeons, with plenty of "side" areas, and some "bypass" paths. There is no real concept of rooms here, but the roomier areas tend to occur where there is a side area offshooting the main path. It's really just a mash-up of wide and narrow bits.

Which of these two parts were you thinking of? Neither is what I had in mind for our community project

There are other areas as well, with rooms/hallways that randomly generated. It just depends on where you are. The idea would be that there are different areas that are generated in different ways.

What did you have in mind?

From what Machaira was describing, I was thinking he wanted a specified number of rectangular rooms dotted around, with single file passageways joining them together in some unspecific way.

Do you think something a little more natural looking would be better, like the caves on the Blood Moor. I would agree, but it's principally Machaira's design.

Remember, I don't know the MUD genre. I'm picturing our game as a combination of:

-- Dungeon Master (An rpg dungeon crawler with a rectangular walls, a steady pace, that feels in between turn-based and real time. The game involves killing monsters, collecting gear and developing character skills through practicing the ones you want to develop.)

-- Warcraft 3 (this kind of player view, and similar point'n'click character control. This type of fantasy setting and monster types).

I'll try to mock up tonight what I'm thinking of.

_________________
Bored? Head on over to my blog and see what I'm up to.

Microsoft XNA MVP

One problem with diablo 2 is that the exit from a dungeon could be at the far side of the map, or one screen to the right (usually though the door you didn't take before wandering off all over the map...)

Some areas (act 1 outdoors, monestary top floor, diablo's lair, etc) had a slightly more pre-determined design that put things at sensible distances without the long winding dead ends of the dungeons.

I always prefered these semi-random areas, walking down another long jungle path to nowhere or having to search every last remote corner of the sewers for the trapdoor just sucked.

That is why you should teleport everywhere and hug the boundaries of the map

I am not opposed to laying out some rooms randomly and connecting them up with hallways (in dungeons at least), but keep in mind you need wider than one square hallways if you want to play with other people (assuming a player is one square in size). I do think we need some sort map definition to give the basic layout (like how roads always lead to places in Diablo) and then randomize the rest, so it is not just a hodge-podge of rooms that doesn't give the player any sort of bearings as where they are or where they are going.

Why?

_________________
Bored? Head on over to my blog and see what I'm up to.

Microsoft XNA MVP

If you only have one square wide hallways then only one character can attack at a time if you are in a hallway.

I mostly agree with Struan about hallways. Hallways should mostly be at least two spaces wide.

_________________
What most people don't understand about "enlightenment" is that it is not an end-goal; but where you find yourself just before taking a new "first step."

So?


Hmmm, hallway size could be variable as well. Anywhere from 1-3 wide. Could make things interesting.

_________________
Bored? Head on over to my blog and see what I'm up to.

Microsoft XNA MVP