I'm thinking there doesn't need to be a limit to the number of character levels, but the design needs to account for that somehow.

I don't really have a good handle on the number of rooms. Maybe someone else will chime in.

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I'm not sure I understand the impact of the question...

Based on the question, I am assuming the number of rooms will determine the number of mobs the player will have to fight, or the amount of treasure they will receive. This also assumes there are no mobs wandering the dungeon.

If this is the case then, the number of rooms should be limited. The formula Jasmine came up with should work nicely.

If there are no limits to the number of mobs a player may encounter within a dungeon (based on there level), then I dont believe the number of rooms matters. Just limit the amount of treasure, or number of treasure chests.

The would have to be a limit to the number of mobs as well, at least as far as rooms are concerned. Obviously the player has to have a chance at clearing a dungeon. Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way. What should be the determining factor at creating a challenging dungeon?

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This may have been assumed or not, but I was thinking perma-death would be enabled for this (although stats for that character would be saved for leaderboards and such, if enabled).

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Your right that the number of mobs in a given dungeon needs to be relative to the level of the player as well as the size of the dungeon.
I wasn't understanding why the number of rooms would have an impact on the number of mobs in a given dungeon.

I have had more fun trying to find my way through a labyrinth fighting a few low level mobs to come some boss guarding the goal of the dungeon.

A dungeon with say 10 to 15 equal or lower level mobs and one higher level mob for a level 1 or 2 player could be challenging. As well as increase the number of equall/low level mobs by 5 for each level of the player.

So a level 1 player would get a dungeon that had 10 level 1 or 0 mobs scattered through out the dungeon and one level 2 mob.
A level 2 player would get 15 level 1 or 2 mobs and 1 level 3 mob.

As the player reaches higher levels maybe increase the number of mobs by 10 / level and the number of higher level mobs increases to 2 or 3.

We might be able to just fix the dungeon size at between 10-50 rooms I guess. Maybe a small percentage chance that there's a mob several levels higher than the character with the rest between 1-2 levels lower to higher than the character. Obviously the numbers will need tweaking after testing.

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I was wondering how death would be handled.

I like the perma death idea.

No.

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So what should be the death penalty then?

A hardcore mode where loot and exp. is greater than normal mode would be fine with me.

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If the players will be able to save their progress then there is no issue. When the character dies they just reload their last save.

If the game is not designed to span multiple sessions (like an arcade style game), then I don't see the issue. Once the player closes the game their character is lost anyway.

That seems tedious. I would go with the last of least frustration for the player and don't make the game difficulty dependent on how often one saves their game.

I think simple autosaving and a minor penalty (but enough to discourage dying) would suffice.

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Classes and stats be damned.

Let's use sliders to determine how the player wants his character to be.

For example, Magic ==== Strength.

He can move the slide all the way over to magic and be a feeble little dude, or move it all the way over to strength to be a hulking monstrosity with no magic skills whatsoever.

Randomly generated monsters whose stats use something like this would be neat as well.

Just a thought.

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It can be nice in games to become acquainted with the creep types. I'd imagine that too much random generation and use of sliding scales will create a game which the player is only loosely familiar with, because the creeps are different every time.

For example, coming up against a granite golem in warcraft 3, I know exactly how to deal with that. I know how many archers to make, and I know how the unit behaves; it's strengths and its stun ability and it's rock throwing ability .

Having a generic unit type with unspecific skills, is too much of guessing game.

Sure, have a sliding scale for creep levels. So a mud golem can be any level from 1-12; a rock golem any level from 8-24, a stone golem anywhere from 20-35, a granite golem anywhere from 30-50, etc. But keep abilities and behaviour constant within each creep class, just scale up the damage and hp.

Also, there can be an arbitrary 'elite' extension to a creep, which perhaps gives more magic reserves, or faster magic cooldown, an additional spell, or stats typical of an equivalent creep a couple of levels higher. But nothing too different. For example, in the golem family (mud<rock<stone<granite), an elite rock golem could mean that it is part of the way to becoming a stone golem, so give it one of the stone golem's spells, and increases it's stats equivalent to a rock golem +2 levels.


Also, calling oneself a mage or a paladin is a nice familiar title, and there is instant role familiarity, and an individual role to master, or to take preference of. Take that discrete classification system away, and what am I? Without a specific class, my identity falls back to racial identification.

Like NSP said - "No". Character progress will be saved automatically. There should be no saving in a dungeon.


The whole purpose is to span multiple sessions. It's basically supposed to be a fun version of grinding.

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I'm Jim Perry and I approve this post.

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404

Uhhh, I don't get it.

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sorry, I'm picking up the local slang...

404 is an error code = clueless.

I returned a 404 because I don't know who Jim Perry is.

Uhhh, I posted it so that would be me.

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Worst. Idea. Ever.

Why? Because it's completely wrong in every way imaginable. It's like saying to be strong, you must be stupid. To be smart, you have to be a wimp. I know realism isn't a key factor in a game, but that's just irritating.

If you want to use sliders, fine. Just don't make it where you have to choose between one thing or another. If you want to be a muscle-bound wizard, fine. You'll have to sacrifice *something* to get there, but let the player choose what he wants to sacrifice in favor of the other, rather than force a "one or the other" ultimatum.

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