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 Post subject: Entity stats
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 8:02 pm 
King Code Monkey
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Discussion of what stats should be used for humans and creatures. The "standards" are pretty obvious:

Strength
Agility - ability to move the entire body (ex. gymnastics)
Dexterity - hand/eye coordination
Constitution
Intelligence

How crazy do we want to go with stats? Other possibilities:

Will - useful for psionics, resisting domination for example or pushing the body past normal limits
Charisma - depending on how intrictate we make entity-to-entity contacts

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 8:11 pm 
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How about Critiacal strike and luck. Those are always fun.

CritStrike => How good your chance is for dbl Dmg.
Lck => How good the item drops are.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 8:35 pm 
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Previous experience.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 9:27 pm 
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Some of the stuff I'm about to say is speculation:
Machaira wrote:
Strength

Yes, of course. Affects Melee damage (which can affect bashing down doors (if we allow it)), your maximum health slightly, jump height (if jumps are implemented), how effective your blocking is.

Machaira wrote:
Agility - ability to move the entire body (ex. gymnastics)

Affects movement speed, jump height (if jumps are implemented), ranged weapon accuracy, reload time (slightly), fire rate of melee weapons, and how fast you raise your block.

Machaira wrote:
Dexterity - hand/eye coordination

Yes, affects ranged weapon accuracy, reload time, lockpicking (maybe?), throwing accuracy (if throwing is implemented (grenades?)), and how fast you raise your block.

Machaira wrote:
Constitution

Sure. Affects hit points, how much stuff you can carry (if we have a weight limit), your maximum health, how long it takes for you to recover from mainly physical attacks/psi effects, and how effective your blocking is.

Machaira wrote:
Intelligence

This is a measure of how smart someone is, and I've never thought that it's an appropriate stat for use in roleplaying games, not to mention that there are different kinds of intelligence.
How about this:
Intuition - used for psionics skills, psionic energy regeneration rate, and a TINY TINY bit all skills (you instinctively know how to do it right).
Memorization - used for psionic skills, and for psionic energy maximum.

How crazy do we want to go with stats? Other possibilities:

Machaira wrote:
Will - useful for psionics, resisting domination for example or pushing the body past normal limits

Affects how long it takes for you to recover from mainly mental attacks/psi effects, psionic skills, slightly maximum health, slightly maximum psi energy, slightly melee attack damage, slightly fire rate, and slightly ranged weapons accuracy. Perhaps a better name may be "concentration".

Machaira wrote:
Charisma

MAYBE, but once again, this is an RPG stat that I don't like too much.

NowSayPillow wrote:
CritStrike => How good your chance is for dbl Dmg.

This is handled by already by strength, concentration/will, dexterity, and agility.

NowSayPillow wrote:
Lck => How good the item drops are.

Also then it would affect all actions extremely slightly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 9:32 pm 
Fish Doggy
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T-1 wrote:
NowSayPillow wrote:
CritStrike => How good your chance is for dbl Dmg.

This is handled by already by strength, concentration/will, dexterity, and agility.

Yeah, that would get you a base stat. But what happens when you want a weapon to affect this stat specificlly? You wouldn't want to add to each of the strength, concentration/will, dexterity, and agility stats. Just so you can get the crit strike % up .5. At least that's what I think.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 9:40 pm 
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NowSayPillow wrote:
Yeah, that would get you a base stat. But what happens when you want a weapon to affect this stat specificlly? You wouldn't want to add to each of the strength, concentration/will, dexterity, and agility stats. Just so you can get the crit strike % up .5. At least that's what I think.

Then the weapon is labeled as "critical strike bonus +5" under the information about it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 11:37 pm 
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I'd love to see more games use a system like this:
Astonia

Basically, you have a ton of different stats. Depending on what character you are, you have different stats. Such as mages have a few different magic attack stats that fighters do not have, while fighters have a few different, well, fighting stats, that mages do not have. Then there are the stats that everyone has, such as Perception (ability to see those who are hiding or see farther away), Lockpick, Immunity (lower damage from magic attacks), etc. Then there are a few primary stats, such as Strength, Agility, Wisdom, Intelligence and Braveness. These stats, when raised, modify the secondary stats, like +1 for every 5 points, along with make the character overall stronger. These stats cost more, too, though.

So you have your primary stats that every class has, then your secondary stats that all classes have, and your class-specific stats. Raising stats is not based on level, rather then it is based on Experience. So you are never forced to wait to level up to raise your stats, which I have always thought was a completely retarded method. Your level is just used as a generic value to how strong you are, and each level raises your health/mana a bit. Each time you raise a stat, it exponentially increases in cost. So to raise it, it may cost like:

5exp
7exp
11exp
18exp
25exp
36exp
60exp
91exp

And so on. The reason this method is so good is since there actually is a difference between someone who just hit level 100 and someone who is almost level 101. Also, you dont have to wait until you level to become stronger. It also allows you to open up to having tons of stats, since who would want to waste a whole point in Lockpicking when they could just raise Strength, which will be better for them in the long-run? It also allows players to create their own very unique characters. Games like Diablo, there is not much diversity in characters - there is a few best spells and best skills for every class. Most characters are nearly the same, except for maybe a Sorc might go for Ice attacks instead of Fire attacks or something, which is really not a significant difference.

The only real problem with this method is that you are pretty much stuck with the same spells/skill throughout the whole game, which can make using them pretty repetative. For the little rpg I am making, it uses a system just like this except for instead of raising skills/spells individually, it will be done more on the level of you can get new skills/spells once you have enough of certain stats. So you have 3 magic skills - Offensive, Defensive and Summoning, which determine how strong each spell of that category is. And the higher that skill is, the more different spells you can learn under that category. It still allows for very diverse, unique characters, without the limiting of just a few spells/skills throughout the whole game.

Some examples of skills/spells could be:
-The primary stats (Strength, Agility, Braveness, Intelligence, Wisdom)
-Each different weapon type (pistols, rifles, heavy weapons, etc) which increase accuracy/damage
-Lockpicking (unlock locked doors)
-Stealth (hide from sight)
-Perception (see better)
-Speed (move/attack/reload faster)
-Parrying (avoid being hit)
-Critical Hit (raises critical hit chance)
-Reloading (increase reload speed)
-Immunity (decrease magic attack damage)
-Regenerate (increase health recovery rate)
-Rest (increase endurance recovery rate)
-Meditate (increase magic recovery rate)

Just stuff kinda like that. I think you get the idea.

Sorry if that was confusing. :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:27 am 
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What I was thinking of is this: When you use a skill, you level up in it. Sort of like Morrowind/Oblivion. When you hit someone the face with a sword, you get better at hitting people in the face with a sword, and your strength gets better.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:31 am 
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Just wanted to add something about Intelligence.

Some games do this, and some dont. But i think its a good idea.

Have intelligence effect how much EXP a person recives.

The more intelligent a person is, the faster he will learn things.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:38 am 
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The-Moon wrote:
Just wanted to add something about Intelligence.

Some games do this, and some dont. But i think its a good idea.

Have intelligence effect how much EXP a person recives.

The more intelligent a person is, the faster he will learn things.

No, the more intelligent someone is, the more they have learned, which is why it's a bad name. A more logical name would be like intuition like I said.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 1:19 am 
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You could use the system, I've written down a long time ago...

Basically, you have your stats, whatever they might be then, as you put points into them or how ever you level them... you gain a class in that skill... actually now that I think of it it's like oblivion... Well, every stat would have 8 levels, in which you can only gain 5 through stats.

So for strength you would have
Level 1-10 Class 1 in Strength, and it would give you tons of specific buffs... like a new attack strength, like melee with weapon.
Level 10-30 Class 2 in Strength, giving you more buffs.

However since you can only get to level 5 max through stats, you can rely on psionic buffs to increase your character the rest of the way, or special armor. Anything past 5 has a special name, like Master Strength, Heroic Strength, and then Legendary Strength
in which you get stronger special buffs or previous buffs hit for more or do more.
Like getting tons of energy may unlock special prerequisite psionic powers.
It's a very nice idea, though it might not be just right.

<OT> the only reason I like it is because my game is special, in which this kind of system is very important.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:13 am 
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T-1 wrote:
The-Moon wrote:
Just wanted to add something about Intelligence.

Some games do this, and some dont. But i think its a good idea.

Have intelligence effect how much EXP a person recives.

The more intelligent a person is, the faster he will learn things.

No, the more intelligent someone is, the more they have learned, which is why it's a bad name. A more logical name would be like intuition like I said.

If you use that logic, then I.Q is the proper and logical name. There, you've learnt something, you now have higher intelligence :).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:50 am 
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Can we make it skill based like Ultima Online rather than level/experience like other games?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 3:05 am 
King Code Monkey
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I would prefer skill based as well. Also, this is just what stats will be in the game, not leveling or how they increase. That's another issue.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:00 am 
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I think Spodi has a good idea there, with variable stats depending on how the player advances.

However, since that caters more to a class-based system (from what I can tell), I don't know how well it would suit our game. Are we going to even use classes, BTW?

I would prefer a skill-based advancement system will relatively few (no more than 8) basic, but robust, stats. That way, the stat system is intuitive and easy for the user to understand; even though they may not know precisely what each stat does, the name gives them a hint as to what types of things the stat will affect.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:03 am 
P2k
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T-1 wrote:
The-Moon wrote:
Just wanted to add something about Intelligence.

Some games do this, and some dont. But i think its a good idea.

Have intelligence effect how much EXP a person recives.

The more intelligent a person is, the faster he will learn things.

No, the more intelligent someone is, the more they have learned, which is why it's a bad name. A more logical name would be like intuition like I said.


Intuition, is knowing something will happen, without really knowing it will happen. So how dose that have anything to do with knowledge or intelligence? Maybe it would be a Sub Skill from the main stats of Intelligence and Knowledge.

Intelligence is....

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=intelligence

1. The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.

Knowledge is....
1. The state or fact of knowing.
2. Familiarity, awareness, or understanding gained through experience or study.
3. The sum or range of what has been perceived, discovered, or learned.
4. Learning; erudition: teachers of great knowledge.
5. Specific information about something.
6. Carnal knowledge.

Intuition is....
1.
1. The act or faculty of knowing or sensing without the use of rational processes; immediate cognition. See Synonyms at reason.
2. Knowledge gained by the use of this faculty; a perceptive insight.
2. A sense of something not evident or deducible; an impression.

Intelligence should change how fast your skills raise, and a lower intelligence should cause skills to drop if not used.

Knowlage could be another stat. And this would determain the max you can train a skill too.

Intuition aint much of a important stat.... More of a skill tho.






I think it would be a good idea, to have all skills, stats and abbilitys all use a Exp system.

Why? Because its realistical, and it can bring better gameplay, into the game.

If a player sits and chops wood all day, his strenght is going to go up.

In a system where str raises when you level. You would have to chop down alot of trees befor you even gain anymore strenght.

Btw, i was just using chopping wood as a example.

But if we use this system we should also do something else.

Make it so that the player can only Gain So much of any skill on any giving day.

One of the stats, Intelligence, knowlage, willpower, or something. Would determian the max ammount of EXP in skills the player can learn per day.

Once he reaches that max he cannot learn anything else until he goes to sleep.

This would be a realistical way of doing it.

This is how i would personaly do it. But if you guys want more of a Game, Then something with realistical restrictions, Then thats fine :)

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 Post subject: Re: Entity stats
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:25 am 
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Machaira wrote:
Discussion of what stats should be used for humans and creatures. The "standards" are pretty obvious:

Strength
Agility - ability to move the entire body (ex. gymnastics)
Dexterity - hand/eye coordination
Constitution
Intelligence

How crazy do we want to go with stats? Other possibilities:

Will - useful for psionics, resisting domination for example or pushing the body past normal limits
Charisma - depending on how intrictate we make entity-to-entity contacts


Why not just go for the good, traditional D&D stats?

Strength
Intelligence
Dexterity
Constitution
Charisma
Wisdom

Just group agility in with dexterity (seeing as they are pretty much the same thing anyway, especially in RPG type abstractions :P).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:04 pm 
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The-Moon wrote:
T-1 wrote:
The-Moon wrote:
Just wanted to add something about Intelligence.

Some games do this, and some dont. But i think its a good idea.

Have intelligence effect how much EXP a person recives.

The more intelligent a person is, the faster he will learn things.

No, the more intelligent someone is, the more they have learned, which is why it's a bad name. A more logical name would be like intuition like I said.


Intuition, is knowing something will happen, without really knowing it will happen. So how dose that have anything to do with knowledge or intelligence? Maybe it would be a Sub Skill from the main stats of Intelligence and Knowledge.

Intelligence is....

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=intelligence

1. The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.

Knowledge is....
1. The state or fact of knowing.
2. Familiarity, awareness, or understanding gained through experience or study.
3. The sum or range of what has been perceived, discovered, or learned.
4. Learning; erudition: teachers of great knowledge.
5. Specific information about something.
6. Carnal knowledge.

Intuition is....
1.
1. The act or faculty of knowing or sensing without the use of rational processes; immediate cognition. See Synonyms at reason.
2. Knowledge gained by the use of this faculty; a perceptive insight.
2. A sense of something not evident or deducible; an impression.

Intelligence should change how fast your skills raise, and a lower intelligence should cause skills to drop if not used.

Knowlage could be another stat. And this would determain the max you can train a skill too.

Intuition aint much of a important stat.... More of a skill tho.

It's a form of intelligence. I was looking for something more specific, there are many ways of being intelligent. Plenty of people are great at learning history, but suck at calculus, and vice-versa. Memorization vs. Intuition.

workmad3 wrote:
Why not just go for the good, traditional D&D stats?

Because, "good, traditional D&D stats" aren't as good of a representation of skills or aren't as fun as I would like.

workmad3 wrote:
Just group agility in with dexterity (seeing as they are pretty much the same thing anyway, especially in RPG type abstractions :P).

I guy that is good at UT isn't the same as a guy who runs the 100-meter-dash in the olympics.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:33 pm 
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T-1 wrote:
workmad3 wrote:
Why not just go for the good, traditional D&D stats?

Because, "good, traditional D&D stats" aren't as good of a representation of skills or aren't as fun as I would like.


Buh? :confused

Have you looked at the skills section from a D&D character sheet recently?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:59 pm 
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Was gonna say. These are the stats, not the skills. Character attributes atc.

And T-1, no, a guy who runs a 100-metre sprint is not the same as the guy who can play UT fantastically. Thats because the UT guy would have really low constitution and strength, while the 100 metre guy would have good dexterity, constitution and strength.

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