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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:00 pm 
King Code Monkey
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:54 pm 
Corpse Bride
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I’m thinking stats would be the basic ones – strength, dexterity, agility, intelligence, will, charisma, constitution. The important thing is that character development isn’t driven by increasing these stats to god-like proportions. In fact, there will be very little increase in stats, only what’s possible realistically, since this is a more realistic MMO than the fantasy based ones.


My advice is to not put too much emphasis on "realism".

Stats are made to increase at the rate they do because that is what happens to optimise the gameplay enjoyment. Focusing too much on realism by using shallow stat growth, and you could end up with something boring.

If the stat curve is too shallow, then players will feel a poor sense of progress. What they struggled to kill at level 20, they'll still be struggling to kill at level 25. Leveling up loses it's significance (and thrill factor) if you can't feel any difference between one level and the next. WoW is very balanced in this regard ~ you can just about feel the difference between level n and level n+1. Players can feel they have advanced.

For completeness, if the stat curve is too steep, the game can begin to feel linear. "It's impossible to survive this task at level 10, but it's doable and enjoyable at level 11, but if you leave it until level 12 it's not worth doing because it's so simple that it's boring."

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:37 am 
Harmlessness does no harm
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Jasmine wrote:
Stats are made to increase at the rate they do because that is what happens to optimise the gameplay enjoyment. Focusing too much on realism by using shallow stat growth, and you could end up with something boring.

If the stat curve is too shallow, then players will feel a poor sense of progress. What they struggled to kill at level 20, they'll still be struggling to kill at level 25. Leveling up loses it's significance (and thrill factor) if you can't feel any difference between one level and the next. WoW is very balanced in this regard ~ you can just about feel the difference between level n and level n+1. Players can feel they have advanced.

For completeness, if the stat curve is too steep, the game can begin to feel linear. "It's impossible to survive this task at level 10, but it's doable and enjoyable at level 11, but if you leave it until level 12 it's not worth doing because it's so simple that it's boring."


Methinks someone is confusing stats with skills. In most traditional P&P systems, stats don't increase much, if at all... it's usually about skills, which are augmented by character stats, and increase each level. Stats only increase by one point (in total) every four levels only in the d20/D&D system, for example.

I find the d20 system has it nailed, though. The perfect (or as close as I've found to perfect) list of attributes, balancing simplicity with flexibility. In fact, I've gotten into the habit of making new stat systems at least loosely based on the d20 attributes. It's pretty much the best I've seen, among others such as GURPS, Fudge, et al.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:37 am 
King Code Monkey
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Jasmine wrote:
Stats are made to increase at the rate they do because that is what happens to optimise the gameplay enjoyment. Focusing too much on realism by using shallow stat growth, and you could end up with something boring.

But the gameplay doesn't necessarily need to be optimized by stat increase. I don't see why gameplay has to be boring just because stats don't advance.

Jasmine wrote:
If the stat curve is too shallow, then players will feel a poor sense of progress.

That's only if nothing else advances. That's not going to be the case. Skills will increase with use and they should notice the missions they're assigned being "better".

Jasmine wrote:
What they struggled to kill at level 20, they'll still be struggling to kill at level 25. Leveling up loses it's significance (and thrill factor) if you can't feel any difference between one level and the next. WoW is very balanced in this regard ~ you can just about feel the difference between level n and level n+1. Players can feel they have advanced.

I played WoW a bunch of times and never noticed this, at least at the first twenty levels.

Jasmine wrote:
For completeness, if the stat curve is too steep, the game can begin to feel linear. "It's impossible to survive this task at level 10, but it's doable and enjoyable at level 11, but if you leave it until level 12 it's not worth doing because it's so simple that it's boring."

And that's why levels aren't going to be part of this. It's an artificial indicator of advancement through the game that's not necessary as long as the player feels he's accomplishing something another way. Leveling isn't the goal, completing missions is. The advancement will be bigger, more complex missions, just like most MMOs.

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